WinVegasPlus Casino - Der Antrag des Spielers auf Selbstausschluss wurde übersehen.

Good night.

I have a problem with the game, and I requested very specifically the self-exclusion of the VegasPlus casino, with the following message:

Good morning ****** *****

Will you please exclude me indefinitely from your page, please.

A greeting.

***** "

After this they answered me asking if I had had a problem and if they could help me solve it, that is, they did not listen to my request for self-exclusion, which was very direct and straightforward.

Shortly after, I started a period of addiction in which I entered € 1550 and lost them.

I think it is only fair that they reimburse me the amount of my deposits at 100%, since if they had followed my order, they would not have occurred.

Buenas noches.

Tengo un problema con el juego, y solicite de forma muy concreta la autoexcludion del casino VegasPlus, con el siguiente mensaje:

Buenas soy ****** *****

Me haceis el favor de autoexcluirme de forma indefinida de vuestra pagina, por favor.

Un saludo.

*****"

Tras esto me respondieron preguntandome si habia tenido algun problema y si me podian ayudar a solucionarlo, es decir, no hicieron caso a mi solicitud de autoexclusion, la cual fue muy directa y sin rodeos.

Rato despues, comence un periodo de adiccion en el que ingrese 1550€ y los perdi.

Creo que lo justo es que me reembolsen el importe de mis depositos al 100%, dado que de haber hecho caso a mi orden, no se hubiesen producido.

Dear Carlos,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Before we’ll contact the casino and ask for their standpoint, could you please advise if your account is still accessible?

I have checked Responsible Gaming section, and this is what I found https://www.vegasplus.com/en/:

„Playing Limits

Gambling should be fun and entertaining, but it should also be approached with responsibility and limits. At VegasPlus we want your playing experience to always be positive, and we therefore encourage you to keep it under control by using the following limitation options:

Deposit Limit: We give you the option to limit your deposit in a time frame of a day/week/month. Please contact us and we will put in the limit you request.

Freeze Account: If you want a break from playing, you can put your account on hold whenever you like. Contact us and we will freeze your account for you."

Contact Info: support@vegasplus.com

*We are available 7 days a week.

Is this the email address that you have sent the email to?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Good afternoon, I sent the message through the casino chat, I have already been told that you have been redirected to the finance service.

I have seen other cases and you close them because a reason has not been mentioned in the request for self-exclusion, but it is not specified anywhere that it should be mentioned, other than that it is not the responsibility of anyone to know the reason why I want to exclude myself.

I gave an order, which was very specific, to exclude myself.

This order, when you are on a losing streak is not easy to give, always wanting to think that by entering more you will recover.

Still, I was strong and gave the order.

If you had listened to me and closed the account, I would have € 1,550 more in my account, that is not debatable, it is a reality.

My account is still available and open, although my deposits have been blocked, which is no longer useful to me since I have already lost my money.

I hope we can figure it all out if I don't turn the case over to a lawyer to talk to them.

a greeting

Buenas tardes, el mensaje lo envié a traves del chat del casino, ya me han dicho que lo han redirigido al servicio de finanzas.

He visto otros casos y los cerrais debido a que no se ha mencionado un motivo en la solicitud de autoexclusión, pero es que no se especifica en ningun sitio que se debe de mencionar, a parte de que no es de la incumbencia de nadie saber el motivo por el que quiero autoexcluirme.

Yo dí una orden, la cual fue muy concreta, autoexcluirme.

Dicha orden, cuando te encuentras en una racha de pérdidas no es nada fácil de dar, siempre queriendo pensar que ingresando más vas a recuperar.

Aún así, fui fuerte y dí la orden.

De haberme hecho caso y cerrar la cuenta, yo tendría 1550€ más en mi cuenta, eso no es dicutible, es una realidad.

Mi cuenta aún sigue estando disponible y abierta, aunque me han bloqueado los depósitos, que ya no me sirve de nada dado que ya he perdido mi dinero.

Espero que todo lo solucionemos si no le pasaré el caso a un abogado para que hable con ellos.

Un saludo

I have to say that later on they gave me a loss voucher and I made profits, and at that moment to be able to withdraw the money, I said not to exclude myself, but finally I lost everything and until the moment of sending that message, I had already lost € 1,250 .

The remaining € 300 was later, but also if they had listened to me from the first moment, I would not have lost them either.

He de decir que mas adelante me dieron un bono de perdidas y saque beneficios, y en ese momento para poder retirar el dinero, dije que no me autoexcluyeran, pero finalmente perdi todo y hasta el momento de enviar ese mensaje, ya habia perdido 1250€.

Los 300€ restantes fue posteriormente, pero igualmente si me hubiesen hecho caso desde un primer momento, no los hubiese perdido tampoco.

Carlos, allow me to explain you what the difference is between closing the account and self-exclusion:

Some casinos use lots of tools for responsible gambling and I would not mention them here. What player can do if she is unhappy in the casino: Close the account or self-exclude herself, that's the two basic choices.

Closing an account is simple and has almost none impact - the player can reopen account anytime, and casino has no obligation to the player.

On the other hand, self-exclusion does. If the player successfully makes a self-exclusion the casino agrees not to open this account or if yes only under particular circumstances. (after cooling off period and this cannot be done for players who’s are addicted/with gambling problem)

In the case of self-exclusion, if casino failed in this, the player may ask for a refund.

Do you have, by any chance a screenshot of the conversation with a live chat agent? Thank you in advance.

Good morning, I understand the difference you explain to me, however, I requested self-exclusion.

I attach a photo of the email I sent them, I was wrong, in this case it was an email and they opened a ticket, the chat was when I spoke to them to claim my money.

I delete my personal data.

Greetings,

Charles

Buenos dias, entiendo la diferencia que me explicas, sin embargo, yo solicite autoexclusion.

Te adjunto foto del email que les mande, me equivoque, en este caso fue un email y abrieron un ticket, lo del chat fue cuando les he hablado para reclamarles mi dinero.

Tacho mis datos personales.

Un saludo,

Carlos

Dear Petronela:

I add that I have been reviewing the VegasPlus terms and conditions in more detail and any information they offer on their website and they do not indicate anything about why a reason should be given for requesting self-exclusion, so after I send the request It should have been done right away instead of dragging the process out and asking me unnecessary questions.

I understand that as a company they want to bill as much money as possible, but if a client tells you that they want to exclude themselves, they should attend to their query (as established by the regulations) exclude themselves, and that's it.

I mean, my request was very clear and totally correct, so please take this into consideration.

Greetings and I hope you can help me, that money is very important to me currently, I assure you.

Estimada Petronela:

Añado que he estado revisando los términos y condiciones de VegasPlus más en detalle y cualquier información que ofrecen en su pagina web y no indican nada sobre que se deba dar un motivo por el que se solicita la autoexclusión, por lo que tras yo enviar la solicitud, se debería haber realizado de inmediato en vez de alargar el proceso y hacerme preguntas innecesarias.

Entiendo que como empresa quieren facturar la mayor cantidad de dinero posible, pero si un cliente te dice que se quiere autoexcluir, se deberia de atender su consulta(tal y como establece la normativa) autoexcluirle, y ya esta.

Es decir, mi solicitud fue muy clara y totalmente correcta, por lo que por favor, tome esto en consideración.

Un saludo y espero me puedas ayudar, ese dinero es muy importante para mí actualmente, se lo aseguro.

Dear Carlos,

Just a short recap please, you have requested a self-exclusion on 10th of July 2020. Unfortunately, your request hasn’t been granted, au contraire, casino has given you a cashback bonus and you took back your request to self-exclude. Have you sent another message afterwards to remind your intention to the casino? Additionally, could you please forward your cashier history with deposits? Thank you very much in advance.

Good Petronela, it was not exactly like that.

On June 10 at 13:31, after losing a lot of money in your casino, I request self-exclusion. At 15:13, they answer me, ignoring my clear and direct request, telling me that if I was unhappy with their service they could help me.

When I sent the application, I already forgot to deposit because I believed that they were going to close it and I was going to keep the money inside, but it was when they answered me without paying attention to me, that I allowed myself to deposit more since they showed me that they did not They would close it if I didn't ask for it again, and therefore if I deposited there would be no problem.

That same afternoon, for this reason, I try to recover and deposited € 1,250 in total, which I lost, and I stayed at € 0

They give me a no deposit bonus and I have a good streak and I manage to get a real balance of € 1800.

I request that they do not exclude me in order to withdraw the money and that there are no problems. I lose those 1800 € and I stay at 0 €.

In the following days I deposit € 300 more, which is all I had left, and I lose them too.

I enclose the capture of the deposits where you can see what I have told you.

A greeting.

Charles.

Buenas Petronela, no fue así exactamente.

El día 10 de Junio a las 13:31, tras perder bastante dinero en su casino, solicito la autoexclusión. A las 15:13, me contestan, haciendo caso omiso a mi solicitud clara y directa, diciéndome que si estaba descontento con su servicio ellos me podían ayudar.

Yo al mandar la solicitud ya me olvidé de depositar debido a que creía que me la iban a cerrar y se me iba a quedar el dinero dentro, pero fue cuando me contestaron sin hacerme caso, que me permití depositar más dado que me mostraron que no la cerrarían si no se lo pedía nuevamente, y por lo tanto si depositaba no habría problema.

Esa misma tarde, por este motivo, intento recuperar y deposité 1250€ en total, los cuales los perdí, y me quedé a 0€

Me dan un bono sin depósito y tengo una buena racha y consigo hacerme con un saldo real de 1800€.

Solicito que no me autoexcluyan para poder retirar el dinero y que no haya problemas. Pierdo esos 1800€ y me quedo a 0€.

En los días posteriores deposito 300€ más, que es todo lo que me quedaba, y los pierdo tambien.

Adjunto la captura de los depósitos donde se ve lo que le he dicho.

Un saludo.

Carlos.

And yes, I have already notified them that I want to exclude myself, and a few days ago they already blocked my deposits after telling them that I was going to claim that money.

Y si, ya les he notificado que quiero autoexcluirme, y hace unos dias ya me bloquearon los depositos tras decirles que iba a reclamar ese dinero.

Thank you very much Carlos for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Carlos.

The reason for self-exclusion is significant. The most important is to admit the gambling problem if you have it. In cases where the player admits the gambling problem there are no additional questions - the player account should be closed as soon as possible. And if casino failed to close the account, then they need to return the player's deposits. But if you just want to make a self-exclude, then it is not considered so strictly because casino assumes you can control yourself. 

Let me explain why:

If you are closing the bank account they, of course, ask you why are you closing the account, what they can make better and eventually they can offer you some discount not to lose you as a customer. The same process has the casinos, and there is nothing wrong on this. Nobody force you to make deposits and you can't blame the casino that you lost the money - Imagine the opposite situation that you won big winnings. These winnings will be yours and casino cannot say you tried to self-exclude so that we will void your winning. 

In your case, the most important is that your self-exclusion was not complete. 

If you answered to casino's email survey, for example: I don't have a gambling problem, I just decided to stop playing at all, so please exclude me (so confirmed this self-exclusion) and casino gives you a confirmation, that you are self-excluded. And later then allow you to open the account and made deposits - that would be a breach. But I am afraid in your case the self-exclusion was not confirmed, and you didn't confirm the gambling addiction. Therefore, you have no right for a refund, and I am very sorry.

Good morning Matej.

In a certain part I understand you, but even so I still don't see any rule or condition that says that the reason must be said.

I have the right not to say why I want to exclude myself, and to be listened to.

Self-exclusion is intended to prohibit yourself from playing the casino, that is, if you request it, it is quite clear that you have a problem and you have to force yourself not to play.

If you just don't want to play more, don't play more, as you would if you get tired of playing Parcheesi; you keep the board in the closet and don't take it out anymore

You don't have to radically prohibit yourself from playing.

That is, when requesting self-exclusion it is more than clear that it is because the player cannot control himself and requests that they control him externally, forbidding him access.

On top of that, I made a special statement that they please close my account, I asked twice please.

I hope that a solution can be found.

A greeting.

Charles.

Buenos dias Matej.

En cierta parte te comprendo, pero aun así sigo sin ver ninguna regla ni condición que diga que se debe decir el motivo.

Yo estoy en mi derecho de no decir el motivo por el que deseo autoexcluirme, y que se me haga caso.

La autoexclusión tiene como fín prohibirte a ti mismo jugar al casino, es decir, si la solicitas, está bastante claro que tienes un problema y te tienes que obligar a ti mismo a no jugar.

Si simplemente no quieres jugar más, no juegas más, como harias si te cansas de jugar al parchís; guardas el tablero en el armario y no lo sacas mas

No hace falta prohibirte a ti mismo de forma radical que juegues.

Es decir, cuando se solicita la autoexclusión está más que claro que es debido a que el jugador no puede controlarse y solicita que le controlen externamente prohibiéndole el acceso.

Encima yo hice especial incampié en que por favor me cerrasen la cuenta, lo pedí por favor en 2 ocasiones.

Espero que se pueda llegar a una solución.

Un saludo.

Carlos.

I am very sorry, Carlos, but I believe that your claim is unjustified.

I will give you here two situations:

Imagine you plan to buy a house. So you prepare all the documents, but in the end, you decide not to sign a contract. Therefore the deal is not valid. Consequently, you are not the owner of that house.

You want to uninstall the antivirus application. First, it asks you the reason why you want to uninstall the app. After the app two times explain to you that your computer would be unprotected, you can press the final button and uninstall the application. And only after that, you uninstall the app. Every different action will keep the application on your computer.

In your case, you showed the intention to self-exclude from the casino but never finalized the process.

You have a free will, so nobody forced you to make deposits to the casino. In the case of winnings, that would be your winnings. The casino obligation is to prevent you from registering, but only when the self-exclusion is complete. The only exception is when the player mentions gambling problem. In this case, self-exclusion must be done as soon as possible. 

You didn't finalize your self-exclusion, so you have no right for refund.

Once I wanted to buy bitcoins when the price was low - I didn't do it, but I can't blame anybody, it was my decision same as yours when you deposited more money.

It does not seem to me at all comparable situations with the use of a drug such as gambling. They are very different topics and taking the drug addict's dose cannot be compared to anything like what you say.

It is clear that if self-exclusion is requested it is because you have a problem, why will it be otherwise?

It does not seem ethical to me that casinos take advantage of their players and extend the self-exclusion process as much as possible in order to increase their probability of winning more money.

The game is a very big problem, and if a player gets to the point of self-exclusion, it should be something instantaneous, and there would not even be a request by email.

Please explain to me what benefits self-exclusion has apart from helping people with pathological problems not to go bankrupt. Tell me please.

A greeting.

No me parece para nada situaciones comparables con el uso de una droga como es el juego. Son temas muy distintos y quitar al drogadicto su dosis no se puede comparar con nada como lo que dices tu.

Esta claro que si se solicita autoexclusion es porque tienes un problema, ¿Por que va a ser si no?

No me parece etico que los casinos se aprovechen de sus jugadores y alarguen todo lo posible el proceso de autoexclusion para asi aumentar su probabilidad de ganar mas dinero.

El juego es un problema muy grande, y si un jugador consigue llegar al punto de autoexcluirse, deberia ser algo instantaneo, y no habria ni si quiera que pedirlo por email.

Expliqueme por favor que utilidades tiene la autoexclusion a parte de ayudar a la gente ludopata a no arruinarse. Digame, por favor.

Un saludo.

It is clear that if self-exclusion is requested it is because you have a problem, why will it be otherwise?

Really? I don't think so. So why then there is a possibility to self-exclude from 1day to 5 years? And for those who have a gambling problem is self-exclusion indefinitely?

You can self-exclude yourself because you want to think twice how you will play your winnings and do not want o make a rush decision. Because you are unhappy with the service and you don't want to play accidentally in sister casino. You can self-exclude yourself because of security reasons - you are going on holiday, so self-exclusion protect your account.

Gambling addiction is a severe problem - honestly, nobody will think that just because you wanted to self-exclude, it means automatically that you have a gambling problem. But getting feedback from the player may help to identify if you do.

Because we didn't receive any response from Carlos and based on what I wrote before we decided to close this complaint as "unjustified."

We decided to reopen this case because Carlos wrote to us that he had an active self-exclusion in Unique Casino.

This completely changed the situation. We would like to ask the casino representatives to step into the case and check the story what Carlos wrote:

Good afternoon, I deposited € 1900 at VegasPlus casino, I finally lost it.

About 7 months ago I excluded myself from Unique Casino, a casino that shares a pool with VegasPlus.

Reading the terms and conditions I realize that, said by them in terms 9.5 and 10.5, I could never have been paid any type of winnings, since being self-excluded from the other casino, I was not entitled to receive even € 1 of benefit.

That is, I have played and risked € 1900 for nothing, which is totally unfair.

I can lose everything without any problem, but I can't win anything. Something that you have already talked about in a post that you have uploaded.

In addition, term 11.1 indicates that customers will be treated as fairly as possible, and in my case, this has certainly not been done.

It would be fair for them to give me back my € 1900, which was never at stake as such, since I was playing with a 0% chance of winning something.

I hope you help me since it is a tremendously unfair situation as you know.

A greeting.

We decided to reopen this case because Carlos wrote to us that he had an active self-exclusion in Unique Casino.

This completely changed the situation. We would like to ask the casino representatives to step into the case and check the story what Carlos wrote:

Buenas tardes, deposité en el casino VegasPlus 1900€, finalmente los perdí.

Hace cosa de 7 meses me autoexcluí de Unique Casino, un casino que comparte grupo con VegasPlus.

Leyendo los términos y condiciones me doy cuenta de que, dicho por ellos en el término 9.5 y 10.5, nunca se me podría haber pagado ningun tipo de ganancia, dado que al estar autoexcluido del otro casino, no tenia derecho a recibir ni 1€ de beneficio.

Es decir, he jugado y arriesgado 1900€ para nada, cosa que es totalmente injusto.

Puedo perder todo sin ningun problema, pero no puedo ganar nada. Algo de lo que ustedes ya han hablado en un post que tienen subido.

Ademas, en el término 11.1 se indica que se tratará de la forma más justa posible a los clientes, y en mi caso sin duda, no se ha hecho.

Lo justo sería que me devolviesen mis 1900€ los cuales nunca estuvieron en juego como tal, ya que yo estaba jugando teniendo un 0% de probabilidades de ganar algo.

Espero me ayuden dado que es una situación tremendamente injusta como ya saben.

Un saludo.

Okay, thank you very much Matej.

In the event that they falsely say that the closure of my Unique Casino account is not due to self-exclusion to avoid paying, I can provide proof that I requested it by email as they told me through the chat on their website and that I do not have access to (Unique) account.

That is, if they deny it, they would still be violating their terms and conditions by ignoring my requests.

I requested it on October 23, 2019 and on November 5 I sent another request since I did not receive any response and my account was still accessible.

Finally I did get self-excluded with the second request, but it was still not easy as the first request was ignored.

Thank you very much and I am available to provide any information.

A greeting.

De acuerdo, muchas gracias Matej.

En el caso de que digan falsamente que el cierre de mi cuenta de Unique Casino no es por autoexclusión para evitar pagar, puedo proporcionar pruebas de que yo la solicité por email tal y como me dijeron por el chat de su web y de que no tengo acceso a la cuenta(de Unique).

Es decir, si lo niegan, igualmente estarian infringiendo sus términos y condiciones por ignorar mis solicitudes.

La solicité el dia 23 de Octubre de 2019 y a dia 5 de Noviembre envié otra solicitud dado que no recibí respuesta alguna y mi cuenta seguia accesible.

Finalmente sí que fui autoexcluido con la segunda solicitud, pero aún así no fue facil ya que la primera solicitud fue ignorada.

Muchas gracias y estoy disponible para proporcionar cualquier información.

Un saludo.

Please forward the all relevant proofs to matej@casino.guru

Thanks.

After we received detailed info from casino representatives, we decided to close the case as "unjustified."

We can confirm that they proceeded according to their terms and according to our fair gambling standards.

I am very sorry, Carlos, but in this case, you have no right to refund.