Dear Radka
Thank you for reading my complaint again.
You said: But there is no reason to refund you because the casino didn't do anything wrong in my eyes.
In my view, that is a very dangerous statement. We all know that a casino should not offer games in areas where gambling is prohibited. The casino should add Switzerland to the list of banned countries as well as they have banned other dozens of countries for the same reasons. Because it is against the law for foreign casinos to offer gambling. You know that the question of legality has not been finally clarified, that this is a legal gray area and that different parties and courts see the situation differently. Switzerland firmly believes that casinos should also add Switzerland to the list of banned countries because offering foreign gambling in Switzerland has been banned by referendum since January 1, 2019. I just want to say that your statement that the casino did nothing wrong is very benevolent towards the casino and a court may at some point see it differently.
And in general, I did not violate T&C in this regard. The T&C (4.2) states: You hereby agree, confirm, and guarantee that your use of the Website services does not violate any of the applicable laws, statutes, and regulations.
Let me note something here: According to Swiss law, it is forbidden for foreign casinos to offer gambling in Switzerland and for Swiss without a license, but it is legal for Swiss to play at foreign casinos. This means that as a player I have not violated any laws and T&C.
My question in this regard: Where exactly in the T&C is it written that I am responsible for whether offering gambling is allowed in my country or not? I repeat: the use of the website is absolutely legal for Swiss, but the offer of games by casinos is not.
I know that there is a consensus on the legal situation and responsibility for gambling offers abroad. Still, I think it's important to take the patience and time to read the casino's respective T&Cs word for word in this regard. The T&C differ in this respect in many casinos and it cannot be assumed that there is a general rule/consensus. Fresh Casino's T&C only states that I will find out if I am allowed to play at the site and if my use of the site is against the law. It is nowhere in the Fresh-Casino T&C that I allow or agree or that it is my responsibility if the casino itself breaks any laws by offering gambling. (Anyway, it is legally questionable whether a person can shift responsibility to another person if the former does illegal acts. Are T&C allowed, which state that I am solely responsible for the consequences wear if another person robs a bank?)
What I want to say: The question of legality has certainly not yet been finally clarified here, but that wasn't my problem , as you know.
My problem was: I file a complaint and the casino tells me that I have no right to file a complaint. Regardless of the subject matter and reason , because I have consented according to Casino Article 8.6. The casino informed me:
Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6 ."
This is a general statement and rule that does not refer to the content / reason / trigger of the complaint. The casino clearly states that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms. The casino does not specifically say that it is not allowed to file a complaint about the legality of the country of origin, but clearly states that any procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of th T&C of the side.
Or how does Casino Guru evaluate this statement and application of paragraph 8.6 by the casino? I don't see any restrictions regarding grounds for complaints. But I still think that statement violates the license terms. A player should always have the right to procedure for dispute of deposited funds. Whether he is then right is another question. But telling players that any filing and any process of disputing deposited funds is a violation of 8.6 is simply not legal. This application of paragraph 8.6 is simply wrong.
Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."
Where does Article 8.6 state the reasons for which a complaint may and may not be filed? In my view, this is not stated in Article 8.6. I really ask you to check this interpretation and application of Article 8.6 by the Casino.
Thank you.
Best regards
Dario
Liebe Radka
Danke, dass du meine Beschwerde nochmals gelesen hast.
You said: But there is no reason to refund you because the casino didn't do anything wrong in my eyes.
Das ist aus meiner Sicht eine sehr gefährliche Aussage. Wir wissen alle, dass ein Casino in Gebieten nicht Spiele anbieten sollte, in denen Glücksspiele verboten sind. Das Casino sollte die Schweiz in die Liste der verbotenen Länder aufnehmen sowie sie andere dutzende Länder aus denselben Gründen auch gesperrt hat. Weil das Anbieten von Glücksspielen durch ausländische Casinos gegen das Gesetz verstösst. Du weisst, dass die Frage nach der Legalität nicht abschliessend geklärt ist, dass dies ein rechtlicher Graubereich ist und verschiedene Parteien und Gerichte die Situation anders sehen. Die Schweiz ist strikt der Meinung, dass Casinos die Schweiz auch auf die Liste der verbotenen Länder hinzufügen sollten, weil das Anbieten von ausländischem Glücksspiel in der Schweiz per Volksentscheid seit dem 1. Januar 2019 verboten ist. Ich möchte nur sagen, dass deine Aussage, dass das Casino nichts falsch gemacht hat, sehr wohlwollend gegenüber dem Casino ist und es kann sein, dass ein Gericht dies irgendwann anders sieht.
And in general, I did not violate T&C in this regard. The T&C (4.2) states: You hereby agree, confirm, and guarantee that your use of the Website services does not violate any of the applicable laws, statutes, and regulations.
Let me note something here: According to Swiss law, it is forbidden for foreign casinos to offer gambling in Switzerland and for Swiss without a license, but it is legal for Swiss to play at foreign casinos. This means that as a player I have not violated any laws and T&C.
My question in this regard: Where exactly in the T&C is it written that I am responsible for whether offering gambling is allowed in my country or not? I repeat: the use of the website is absolutely legal for Swiss, but the offer of games by casinos is not.
I know that there is a consensus on the legal situation and responsibility for gambling offers abroad. Still, I think it's important to take the patience and time to read the casino's respective T&Cs word for word in this regard. The T&C differ in this respect in many casinos and it cannot be assumed that there is a general rule/consensus. Fresh Casino's T&C only states that I will find out if I am allowed to play at the site and if my use of the site is against the law. It is nowhere in the Fresh-Casino T&C that I allow or agree or that it is my responsibility if the casino itself breaks any laws by offering gambling. (Anyway, it is legally questionable whether a person can shift responsibility to another person if the former does illegal acts. Are T&C allowed, which state that I am solely responsible for the consequences wear if another person robs a bank?)
What I want to say: Die Frage nach der Legalität ist hier bestimmt noch nicht abschliessend geklärt, aber das war nicht mein Problem, wie du weisst.
Mein Problem war: Ich reiche eine Beschwerde ein und das Casino antwortet mir, dass ich kein Recht habe eine Beschwerde einzureichen. Unabhängig von der Thematik und vom Grund, weil ich laut Casino Artikel 8.6 zugestimmt habe. Das Casino hat mir mitgeteilt:
Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."
Das ist eine allgemeine Aussage und Regel, die nicht Bezug auf den Inhalt / Grund / Auslöser der Beschwerde nimmt. Das Casino sagt klar, dass the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms. Das Casino sagt nicht spezifisch, dass es nicht erlaubt ist, eine Beschwerde wegen der Legalität des Herkunfslandes einzureichen, sondern sagt klar, dass jede procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of th T&C of the side.
Oder wie bewertet Casino Guru diese Aussage und Anwendung des Paragraphen 8.6 durch das Casino? Ich sehe hier keine Einschränkungen betreffend Beschwerdegründe. Aber ich bin immer noch der Meinung, dass diese Äusserung den Lizenzbestimmungen widerspricht. Ein Spieler sollte immer das Recht haben to procedure for dispute of deposited funds. Ob er dann Recht erhält, ist eine andere Frage. Aber den Spielern zu sagen, dass jede Einreichung und jedes Verfahren zur Anfechtung von eingezahlten Geldern ein Verstoss gegen 8.6 ist, ist einfach nicht legal. Diese Anwendung von Paragraph 8.6 ist einfach falsch.
Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."
Where does Article 8.6 state the reasons for which a complaint may and may not be filed? In my view, this is not stated in Article 8.6. I really ask you to check this interpretation and application of Article 8.6 by the Casino.
Thank you.
Herzliche Grüsse
Dario
Bearbeitet durch den Verfasser vor 2 Jahren
Automatische Übersetzung